Sometimes I've heard arguments about Italian words. I've even been in a couple of debates myself. I have always maintained that many Italian-Americans ("I-As") and those who grow up with them have their own pronunciation of Italian words, mostly related to food, which they think, incorrectly, that Italians actually pronounce the same way. That's because most I-As really don't speak Italian, but are repeating the few words they learned which were passed down through the generations.
I'll start with the common usage of the G sound for the letter C (actually pronounced in Italian as "Kuh" except after i or e) and dropping the last vowel with certain words. To my little 25-to-Life Sentence (that is, my gf, who is not Italian but was raised in an Italian-Irish Catholic neighborhood) and a number of my friends who are second or third-generation I-As) "calamari" is pronounced "galaMAR." I don't speak Italian. Sometimes I can make out some words or a sentence from reference to other languages like French, English, etc., and sometimes we all just know a little Italian through experience - Ciao bella), but, I've been to Italy three times and never did I hear anyone pronounce Italian that way, even in restaurants. It is the age of the internet and I have now confirmed it as best I can. Calamari is pronounced in Italian as it is spelled - Kal-a-mar-ee (Italian vowel sounds do not vary much and i is always pronounced as long - ee).
The I-As different pronunciation is not random. It actually follows a rule. What is really happening is that the consonants are changed from unvoiced (that is, the voice box does not vibrate) to voiced (there is vibration). Try it by placing your finger across your voice box. Say "cuh" for C and "guh" for G. Your box vibrates a little for guh but not cuh (it moves a bit, but doesn't vibrate). Then drop the last vowel. Calamari becomes galamar.
Why do they do that? Most likely, whoever taught them Italian food words was a descendant of an immigrant from southwestern Italy, like Naples, Rome or Sicily. But, since the 1840s, the Italic states, that is, the states that spoke some form of what became, collectively, Italian, came together and formed the country of Italy. The language began to slowly solidify too, as these things tend to happen, with variation between different areas gradually dying out. In the electronic age - radio, tv and now the internet - it has become even more so one dialect for the whole language in the home country. But, for many reasons, probably mostly random, the northern dialect prevailed and that is what basically, everyone now speaks. So, in Italy, they do not pronounce calamari as galamar. They say calamari (Italian is mostly pronounced as spelled, unlike English and some other languages, with some exceptions - e.g. Apuglia is pronounced a-pool-ya not a-poog-leea). Btw, in English, we say squid, but no one really knows where that came from either (I've read speculation it is sailor lingo for squirt - because squids squirt ink).
In any event, the same novel I-As pronunciation goes for other words. You have probably heard on tv or in movies - gabagoul or -gool. Gabagoul is a food, kind of like prosciutto (which I-As pronounce - proshoot - also not the Italian pronunciation). But, gabagoul, has become something of a joke too (sort of an inside joke where the outsider doesn't know what the others or saying and laughing about). In Italy it is not gabagoul. You might not even understand how it was derived from the actual Italian word, unless you go back to the rule. Capicola (also coppa, capocolla and other variations) is how Italians spell it and say it in Italy, with variations elsewhere - but all somewhat the same. Again, for American-Italian, you change the unvoiced c to a voiced hard g and do it again with the middle consonant (i.e., also change cuh to guh), then drop the last vowel. For some reason I don't know, they also lengthen the last vowels. Capicola becomes gabagoul. Gabagoul happens to sound funny too. In fact, capicola possibly is derived from describing the head and neck area of the pig the cut is taken from: capo - head, collo - neck. As with the etymology of many words, no one can be sure of this. But, there is no doubt about how actual Italians (that is, in Italy) pronounce capicola
There are other examples. I-As say Rigott instead of ricotta, etc. They also say Moozarell or even moozadell for mozzarella (though I read on at least one blog that some Italians may still say mozzadell - maybe - in the old style - it wasn't particularly authoritative).
I'm not Italian and didn't do original research on it. You can find many webpages from Italians discussing the way Americans mispronounce Italian foods. But, they are somewhat wrong. Americans can say whatever they like and it's not wrong. This is how language works, by changing over time and place. Sometimes we call the result dialect, sometimes a different language. Sometimes we disagree on which it is, but it is a grey line. What's wrong, is when out of some nationalistic pride, they believe it is really Italian. BUT THEY DO. And they feel it passionately. It's one of the things I've grudgingly learned you can't have a conversation about without hurting feelings. Sometimes I argue myself with them, sometimes not so hard when I see it is so personal for them. Sometimes I say nothing. That happens more and more with me over many topics.
Another question quite important to I-As is whether that stuff you put on your pasta is "sauce" or "gravy." It turns out that, mostly in the northeast and Chicago, some I-As call it gravy, and everywhere else in America it is sauce. I have had a few discussions in my life with I-As who insisted that there was no such thing as gravy in Italian and no real Italians use that word. The truth is, no Italian uses "sauce." I-As use it. Italians say either "salsa" (like the Spanish) or "sugo" or whatever the type of sauce is - e.g., ragu or bolognese. When you use bolognese sauce, it is a ragu, although oddly, in Bologna, there is no such thing as spaghetti Bolognese, a dish popular all over the world by that name. And the Bolognese are really passionate about that.
So, some I-As are adamant that it is sauce, not gravy, because they say there is no word for gravy in Italy. They are wrong about that. First of all, words used in other languages are not made or used in some kind of reference to English, although the words may be related and one may derive one from the other. It is not as if they say salsa and are thinking - "meaning 'sauce' in English. They are just using a word they know in their language. I know that sounds obvious but a lot of people have trouble getting it. Sugo or salsa can be translated into English as gravy as well as sauce. At least, that's what the dictionaries say, and dictionaries are what people usually go by. "Intingolo" is another word for it. Intingolo della carne (sauce from meat) obviously refers to the gravy you'd make from turkey, say, or a steak.
By the way, according to the Oxford Dictionary, which is often given a lot of weight in etymology circles, the etymology of gravy is:
In other European languages, there is also just no real difference between the words for sauce and gravy. Look up gravy in French (sauce), German (sose), Polish (sos), i - big difference), Spanish (salsa).* Even where not in a language using the s-vowel-s pattern, like Slovenia, just northeast of Italy, it is omaka for gravy and Imako for sauce - almost no difference! Get it? It's pretty much considered the same thing.
Other than etymologists, nobody cares so much except I-As, but Italian is not their actual language. English is.
*Where else can you use sauce or a derivative for gravy (or similar words too)?: Dutch - jus or saus; Greek - saltza; Estonia - soust; Turkish, Bosnian, Polish, Serbian and Croatian - sos; Swedish -sås; Icelandic - sósa; Norwegian - saus; Ukranian and Russian - соус (sous). Probably the next most popular is sugo or derivatives.
Both gravy and salsa derive from very similar meaning Latin/Romantic words - as you can see in the above Oxford chart for gravy, it derives from granum and then old French grain (meaning spice) or grané. So, grain or spice. Sauce or salsa derives from the Latin for salt - salis. Salsa-Salis.
So why do the I-As care so much? I mean gravy is a type of sauce. I'm pretty sure it's just one of those identity things. They identify the pronunciation which they heard from family and neighbors and they don't want to hear that it's not actually Italian. You'll notice that I-As who normally speak without a stitch of Italian accent, and even some who are not I-As, suddenly become Giuseppe the tailor just off the boat from Palermo when they say what they feel is an Italian word. It's no different with traditions. People sometimes keep them, fight over them, even passionately, just because they feel that is what binds them with the group with whom they identify.
I've written here before on language that when enough people use a word in a certain way, that becomes a meaning no matter what other people think or say. So, if tomorrow you use chicken to mean fox, I can't go along (until enough people do - and it's a subjective number). Enough people in the world use sauce or a derivative to mean what we call gravy, I am fine with the usage.
I'm not criticizing anyone for liking traditions or pronunciations they identify with, unless although we do have some few generally accepted taboo words (the taboo is violated all the time). But, though I have my word habits, tradition for tradition's sake is sometimes not my thing. Of course, I follow American language and other traditions without even thinking about it, but I don't hold onto them because I feel they are American, and reject them when I don't like them. Maybe someone else could point them out to me if I'm wrong about that. I'm a product of my heritage, like everyone else. Everyone is to one degree or another. I probably like Chinese food as much as I do and slapsticky humor, maybe even have certain values, to some degree or other, because of being raised in a Jewish-American family. Maybe some because I'm a New Yorker (when I moved down south I did make an effort to talk softer and be more patient with people I came into contact with). My accent is New Yawkish (even when I lived in Virginia). But, wear a yamulka, celebrate Jewish holidays, eat kosher, speak with a slightly Yiddish accent (my dad did that sometimes even though he didn't know Yiddish other than a few words)? - Not for me. But, I have good friends and relatives who do, however, and it is very important to them.
I just like language and don't care when I learned something I always thought was X was actually Y. Usually, I can't wait to tell people about my mistake, although few seem that interested. I wish people were more comfortable finding out they were wrong about something, although they should research it themselves before they accept it. I do that, if I think I've been wrong or even if someone tells me I'm wrong (which happens frequently). I find the opposite is often true with many people. Even when they learn something they thought was this is really that, they soon revert to their original opinion. Habit is strong. Naturally, all of these observations are generalizations and like mph, your actual results may vary.
I am actively researching right now something I've blogged about at the beginning of my blogging career, which I then found a very persuasive argument, but now I've learned might be wrong. But, that's for another day and I have to do a lot of research. Trust me, if they convince me I'm wrong, I'll be mea culpa-ing all over the place. Probably a few months from now.
Enjoy Halloween and Thanksgiving. I'll be back after that to the delight of my massive audience.
I'll start with the common usage of the G sound for the letter C (actually pronounced in Italian as "Kuh" except after i or e) and dropping the last vowel with certain words. To my little 25-to-Life Sentence (that is, my gf, who is not Italian but was raised in an Italian-Irish Catholic neighborhood) and a number of my friends who are second or third-generation I-As) "calamari" is pronounced "galaMAR." I don't speak Italian. Sometimes I can make out some words or a sentence from reference to other languages like French, English, etc., and sometimes we all just know a little Italian through experience - Ciao bella), but, I've been to Italy three times and never did I hear anyone pronounce Italian that way, even in restaurants. It is the age of the internet and I have now confirmed it as best I can. Calamari is pronounced in Italian as it is spelled - Kal-a-mar-ee (Italian vowel sounds do not vary much and i is always pronounced as long - ee).
The I-As different pronunciation is not random. It actually follows a rule. What is really happening is that the consonants are changed from unvoiced (that is, the voice box does not vibrate) to voiced (there is vibration). Try it by placing your finger across your voice box. Say "cuh" for C and "guh" for G. Your box vibrates a little for guh but not cuh (it moves a bit, but doesn't vibrate). Then drop the last vowel. Calamari becomes galamar.
Why do they do that? Most likely, whoever taught them Italian food words was a descendant of an immigrant from southwestern Italy, like Naples, Rome or Sicily. But, since the 1840s, the Italic states, that is, the states that spoke some form of what became, collectively, Italian, came together and formed the country of Italy. The language began to slowly solidify too, as these things tend to happen, with variation between different areas gradually dying out. In the electronic age - radio, tv and now the internet - it has become even more so one dialect for the whole language in the home country. But, for many reasons, probably mostly random, the northern dialect prevailed and that is what basically, everyone now speaks. So, in Italy, they do not pronounce calamari as galamar. They say calamari (Italian is mostly pronounced as spelled, unlike English and some other languages, with some exceptions - e.g. Apuglia is pronounced a-pool-ya not a-poog-leea). Btw, in English, we say squid, but no one really knows where that came from either (I've read speculation it is sailor lingo for squirt - because squids squirt ink).
In any event, the same novel I-As pronunciation goes for other words. You have probably heard on tv or in movies - gabagoul or -gool. Gabagoul is a food, kind of like prosciutto (which I-As pronounce - proshoot - also not the Italian pronunciation). But, gabagoul, has become something of a joke too (sort of an inside joke where the outsider doesn't know what the others or saying and laughing about). In Italy it is not gabagoul. You might not even understand how it was derived from the actual Italian word, unless you go back to the rule. Capicola (also coppa, capocolla and other variations) is how Italians spell it and say it in Italy, with variations elsewhere - but all somewhat the same. Again, for American-Italian, you change the unvoiced c to a voiced hard g and do it again with the middle consonant (i.e., also change cuh to guh), then drop the last vowel. For some reason I don't know, they also lengthen the last vowels. Capicola becomes gabagoul. Gabagoul happens to sound funny too. In fact, capicola possibly is derived from describing the head and neck area of the pig the cut is taken from: capo - head, collo - neck. As with the etymology of many words, no one can be sure of this. But, there is no doubt about how actual Italians (that is, in Italy) pronounce capicola
There are other examples. I-As say Rigott instead of ricotta, etc. They also say Moozarell or even moozadell for mozzarella (though I read on at least one blog that some Italians may still say mozzadell - maybe - in the old style - it wasn't particularly authoritative).
I'm not Italian and didn't do original research on it. You can find many webpages from Italians discussing the way Americans mispronounce Italian foods. But, they are somewhat wrong. Americans can say whatever they like and it's not wrong. This is how language works, by changing over time and place. Sometimes we call the result dialect, sometimes a different language. Sometimes we disagree on which it is, but it is a grey line. What's wrong, is when out of some nationalistic pride, they believe it is really Italian. BUT THEY DO. And they feel it passionately. It's one of the things I've grudgingly learned you can't have a conversation about without hurting feelings. Sometimes I argue myself with them, sometimes not so hard when I see it is so personal for them. Sometimes I say nothing. That happens more and more with me over many topics.
Another question quite important to I-As is whether that stuff you put on your pasta is "sauce" or "gravy." It turns out that, mostly in the northeast and Chicago, some I-As call it gravy, and everywhere else in America it is sauce. I have had a few discussions in my life with I-As who insisted that there was no such thing as gravy in Italian and no real Italians use that word. The truth is, no Italian uses "sauce." I-As use it. Italians say either "salsa" (like the Spanish) or "sugo" or whatever the type of sauce is - e.g., ragu or bolognese. When you use bolognese sauce, it is a ragu, although oddly, in Bologna, there is no such thing as spaghetti Bolognese, a dish popular all over the world by that name. And the Bolognese are really passionate about that.
So, some I-As are adamant that it is sauce, not gravy, because they say there is no word for gravy in Italy. They are wrong about that. First of all, words used in other languages are not made or used in some kind of reference to English, although the words may be related and one may derive one from the other. It is not as if they say salsa and are thinking - "meaning 'sauce' in English. They are just using a word they know in their language. I know that sounds obvious but a lot of people have trouble getting it. Sugo or salsa can be translated into English as gravy as well as sauce. At least, that's what the dictionaries say, and dictionaries are what people usually go by. "Intingolo" is another word for it. Intingolo della carne (sauce from meat) obviously refers to the gravy you'd make from turkey, say, or a steak.
By the way, according to the Oxford Dictionary, which is often given a lot of weight in etymology circles, the etymology of gravy is:
If that seems complicated (and don't ask me why the chart appears three times because it doesn't appear at all when I edit this), the bottom row is earlier from left to right - so, from Latin to Old French and then into Middle English, ending up with gravy, which continued into Modern English. And the Middle English meaning was - spicy sauce - get it - a type of sauce?
Other than etymologists, nobody cares so much except I-As, but Italian is not their actual language. English is.
*Where else can you use sauce or a derivative for gravy (or similar words too)?: Dutch - jus or saus; Greek - saltza; Estonia - soust; Turkish, Bosnian, Polish, Serbian and Croatian - sos; Swedish -sås; Icelandic - sósa; Norwegian - saus; Ukranian and Russian - соус (sous). Probably the next most popular is sugo or derivatives.
Both gravy and salsa derive from very similar meaning Latin/Romantic words - as you can see in the above Oxford chart for gravy, it derives from granum and then old French grain (meaning spice) or grané. So, grain or spice. Sauce or salsa derives from the Latin for salt - salis. Salsa-Salis.
So why do the I-As care so much? I mean gravy is a type of sauce. I'm pretty sure it's just one of those identity things. They identify the pronunciation which they heard from family and neighbors and they don't want to hear that it's not actually Italian. You'll notice that I-As who normally speak without a stitch of Italian accent, and even some who are not I-As, suddenly become Giuseppe the tailor just off the boat from Palermo when they say what they feel is an Italian word. It's no different with traditions. People sometimes keep them, fight over them, even passionately, just because they feel that is what binds them with the group with whom they identify.
I'm not criticizing anyone for liking traditions or pronunciations they identify with, unless although we do have some few generally accepted taboo words (the taboo is violated all the time). But, though I have my word habits, tradition for tradition's sake is sometimes not my thing. Of course, I follow American language and other traditions without even thinking about it, but I don't hold onto them because I feel they are American, and reject them when I don't like them. Maybe someone else could point them out to me if I'm wrong about that. I'm a product of my heritage, like everyone else. Everyone is to one degree or another. I probably like Chinese food as much as I do and slapsticky humor, maybe even have certain values, to some degree or other, because of being raised in a Jewish-American family. Maybe some because I'm a New Yorker (when I moved down south I did make an effort to talk softer and be more patient with people I came into contact with). My accent is New Yawkish (even when I lived in Virginia). But, wear a yamulka, celebrate Jewish holidays, eat kosher, speak with a slightly Yiddish accent (my dad did that sometimes even though he didn't know Yiddish other than a few words)? - Not for me. But, I have good friends and relatives who do, however, and it is very important to them.
I just like language and don't care when I learned something I always thought was X was actually Y. Usually, I can't wait to tell people about my mistake, although few seem that interested. I wish people were more comfortable finding out they were wrong about something, although they should research it themselves before they accept it. I do that, if I think I've been wrong or even if someone tells me I'm wrong (which happens frequently). I find the opposite is often true with many people. Even when they learn something they thought was this is really that, they soon revert to their original opinion. Habit is strong. Naturally, all of these observations are generalizations and like mph, your actual results may vary.
I am actively researching right now something I've blogged about at the beginning of my blogging career, which I then found a very persuasive argument, but now I've learned might be wrong. But, that's for another day and I have to do a lot of research. Trust me, if they convince me I'm wrong, I'll be mea culpa-ing all over the place. Probably a few months from now.
Enjoy Halloween and Thanksgiving. I'll be back after that to the delight of my massive audience.
No comments:
Post a Comment
Your comments are welcome.